Rumors of 'Big Foot' - AKA proposed seating changes at Penn State - have been out of the bag for quite some time, but today, the Penn State athletic department finally revealed its plan for new stadium seating at Beaver Stadium that is set to take place for the 2011 season.
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Known as the Nittany Lion Club Seat Transfer and Equity Plan (STEP), Penn State Athletics is implementing a two phase system from now until the start of the 2011 season that will allow current season ticket holders to 'transfer, retain, upgrade or relocate their seats.'
Clearly, this is a big change for many season ticket holders at Penn State who will now be required to increase their minimum giving levels to the Nittany Lion Club each season, for each seat, if they wish to retain the seats they currently enjoy.
Instead of the stadium-wide minimum donation of $100 per ticket, minimum seat donations each year will be structured based on seat location.
In its simplest terms, tickets in sections EF, EE, ED, EFU, EEU, EDU plus WF, WE, WD, WFU, WEU, and WDU will now require a $600 per seat minimum donation each season.
Sections WH, WG, WC, WB, WGU, WCU and EH, EG, EC, EB, EGU and ECU will all require $400 per seat minimum donations.
Meanwhile, the student section is going to be shifted over to the end zone to take up the south end zone from the 5-yard line on the east side to the 5-yard line on the west side.
Also, visiting tickets will now be relegated to the upper sections of the North End Zone.
With all of the proposed changes on the table, Blue White Illustrated's Nate Bauer and publisher Phil Grosz sat down with Greg Myford, Penn State's associate athletic director of marketing and communications, last Thursday afternoon to get a better understanding of what is taking place and why.
Read below for a transcript of our conversation.
So, what essentially is going to take place?
Myford: Essentially, for 2011, what we are introducing is a plan that in addition to seat quantity that somebody wants, parking quantity and parking location that somebody wants, those are the two criteria that Nittany Lion club members currently base their donation on for football ticket privileges. We are adding a third ingredient that is where you want to sit in the stadium. Based on where you want to sit in the stadium, the stadium will be divided up into four different zones, each of those zones with a different donation, and that each Nittany Lion club member, in addition to the first criteria, will take that third criteria and plug it into evaluating what their minimum donation would be for any given year to sit in any given location.
Who will be impacted by this?
Myford: In the most general sense, those that are financially supporting athletics the least stand to be the most impacted.
If I wanted to retain my four seats and two club seats, would there be any impact on me?
Myford: It depends on what you're currently giving.
Say I give more than $5,000...
Myford: In short, no. That's really important, because regardless of if it's $5,000 or $500, everyone's situation is different.
Was it disappointing that it got out when it did and before you were able to make your own release?
Myford: It wasn't disappointing that the story got out. It was disappointing that some of the important details of the story... it's not that it was inaccurate, it was that it was incomplete and in this case, incomplete can make a major difference to somebody. So, because the feedback that we've gotten is that almost unanimously, the overall assumption is that the fees that were printed are over and above what they're already giving. That is the most important point is that they are not. So, in your case, let's just say that four your four tickets and you're in a zone that is $400 per ticket. So, for someone to retain those tickets based on the location, it would be a $1,600 annual donation.
If a person is already giving $1,600, it would be nothing more than what they are presently doing?
Myford: Correct. That's a major point. Now, contrary, the minimum donation for ticket purchasing privileges is $100 per seat. So that person who might be two rows behind you and is only donating at the minimum $400 for their four seats, if they're in that same zone that is $400 per seat, they go from a $400 donation to a $1,600 donation.
Or, they move into a $100 level area. The impact for that person if they don't want to increase that donation is just a move to another area of the stadium?
Myford: That's correct.
So, nobody would be completely displaced?
Myford: Let me run through the options. The first option that everyone has, with the exception of some people who will be forced to relocate because of the student section, with the exception of those people, everyone's first choice is to remain where they are. So, everyone has the opportunity to stay in the seat that they are. If they choose not to, on one hand, someone can choose to relocate to a different part of the stadium. I don't want to pay the new seat donation required with my current location. What are my other options? So they look at that and they can relocate to a zone that requires less of a financial commitment. Or, conversely, the people that have been sitting in a seat location and have been waiting to be able to upgrade their seats, based on their giving, they can do that and because of our seating and very high renewal rates, we have next to no movement or opportunity for movement from season to season. So now, that person who either has been giving or is willing to give into a better seat location would have the opportunity to do it.
How will this impact people who want to get in on the ground floor? Is there availability right now or will it come in the near future?
Myford: What's not changing is anyone who is currently a season ticket holder will have an opportunity to remain a season ticket holder. And, there won't be anyone that comes in new in front of them as long as they exercise one of the options that is presented.
Will there be a one-time option to transfer tickets to someone else if you're getting up in age?
Myford: It's not a rumor. That opportunity will be rolled out simultaneously and everyone will receive information about the opportunity to transfer tickets from their account to a different account.
How would it work?
Myford: In short, the opportunity to transfer will be on a limited opportunity basis, which essentially will be the remainder of this fiscal year for Penn State, so beginning now through June 30. So, essentially for the remainder of this year, someone would have the opportunity to exercise that transfer option, and all of the details about how to do that, who is eligible to do it, what you need to do is included in all the information. That's a major benefit to everyone.
The students will have an opportunity to enter the stadium through two gates now?
Myford: Yeah, that would be the plan. The good news is we have some time between now and '11 to figure out all of the logistics of that, but certainly that's also a terrific upside as far as bringing them in two separate ways. It allows them to get into the game faster, it allows us to load them into seats faster and the good news for everyone would be that there's more people in the stadium at kickoff.
Will it end up being more, less or the same amount of student tickets?
Myford: Overall, with the reconfiguration which will essentially run from the 5-yard line on the East side to the 5-yard line on the West side, that configuration would be about 800 tickets more than currently exist for students. Now, what hasn't been established, and I don't want to make the assumption that the best use of those tickets is just to make it 800 more student season tickets. I think there's an opportunity, and this is what I want to talk to the students about, is there an opportunity for single-game seats? Is that an opportunity?
So they wouldn't be forced to buy season tickets?
Myford: Not if we went that way.
Would that also open up single-game tickets for non-students? They're extremely tough to come by as it is.
Myford: Absolutely. What the intent would be, and again, this is nothing more than an idea at this point in my mind and I'd want to get student feedback on this, but if we were to make a certain number of student tickets... right now, we're just over 21,000 student season tickets. For round numbers, say we add those 800 in so we're now at 22,000 and that's where we'll be in '11. Should we sell 20,000 season tickets and make 2,000 available on an individual game basis? At the end of June, we sell all the season tickets, the following week, we have an individual game sale, and then at the end of that individual game sale, any of those tickets that aren't purchased could go back and be made available to the public.
Obviously, you'll see some frustrations from people about this. One concern is that people have accrued their Nittany Lion Club points by giving a lot at one shot the first time and then have been giving the minimum. So for those people, how do you balance that out? Whereas instead of giving $600 a year for the last 20 years, they gave it all in one shot and they've been riding on that $100 a year?
Myford: Well, where the point levels will come back into play is in that actual seat selection process of what they want to do, if they are going to either upgrade or relocate, when they choose in that process... what will be different is our fans will participate in the seat selection process. So, if you want to upgrade, there will come a time prior to the '11 season that we'll offer this both online and via the ticket office, but someone can go in and look at what seats are available to him based on what he wants to do, and select those seats based on his point level.
Would there be a timing window for that?
Myford: There's still some details to be worked out with it. It's not a new concept. There's several teams that have done it, several universities that have done it and used the same technology. Essentially, someone would log on, they're going to see a three-dimensional view of Beaver Stadium, they're going to click on the section that they want to go in and then it would just become a shot of that section. Within that section, they're going to see the seats that are taken and the seats that are available, and when they're slotted for their selection, they would be able to go in and choose the seats they want.
One of the things that gets lost is how this university is sort of self-sustaining...
Myford: Not sort of. Is.
Can you explain the necessity of this?
Myford: It's part of our mission, actually, the mission statement of the athletic department within the university, part of our mission is to remain and operate as a self-sustaining unit of the university, and really what that means is any money that we spend, we have to raise. And so, there are no state appropriation dollars that are used by athletics. There are no student tuition dollars or central administration dollars that are used by athletics, and in the type of program that we run, as a broad based and not only a large program with 29 varsity sports, but by and large, all 29 of those compete at a very high level and do well and that is because we provide the facilities and we provide a terrific experience for those student athletes who decide to come here, regardless of sport. That's expensive to do. As we implement this plan and as people begin to comprehend the plan, it is a financial decision for us to do this. We should not pretend otherwise. This is not something that we sat around the table and said, Hey, how can we raise money? This is something that we said, We need to generate revenues or we will come to the point where the expense line crosses the revenue line and at that point, you are looking for other sources of revenue - central administration or whatever else, and that's just not a place that we'd have the option to go in right now.
My understanding is that the figures and facts compiled showed that within eight years, if you didn't take this type of approach, you would be in that situation you just stated.
Myford: Yeah. When you look out over 10 years at the athletic department's financial forecast, that revenue and expense line will cross, or are projected to cross within that 10-year period. Joe Battista knows this plan well because as a point to make, this is also something that was not dreamed up a couple months ago and said, Hey, let's do this. This is something that has been thought about for a long time, in the works for a long time and there's been a lot of consternation, debate and angst about not necessarily whether we needed to do this, but when and how. We are now at the point where if we don't address it, we find ourselves in a really difficult financial position.
Joe told us that he was one of the people that really researched this for you guys.
Myford: That's another good point. There are several people that have worked on this. From the financial aspect, from the customer relation aspect, from the Nittany Lion Club's aspect, from the ticket-sales aspect and not the least of which, all of those together are really, really important to our overall organization. So, we collectively needed to come to the point that said, yes, this is something we need to do. There is obviously a lot that went into the details of it and how we would do it and when we would do it. So, we're now at the point where we're prepared and need to introduce it.
How much bouncing off ideas with other universities was there and maybe more importantly, how delayed is this as compared to what everyone else has been doing?
Myford: We're late to the party. There's no other way to put it. If we look within the Big Ten, I think Indiana and Northwestern are the only ones that don't have it. Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin. You can go right down the line. We've done a lot of benchmarking, to directly answer your question, but not only within our conference but when you look at Alabama, Florida, Texas... you look at peer institutions that all have some seating plan in place that aligns annual giving with where people sit in the stadium.
One of the other main concerns is that people don't want to see Penn State get into a situation like the corporatization of sports that we've seen all over the place in the past decade. Does this region and the demographic change the perspective on that at all to the point where people are getting priced out? You don't want to see corporate boxes and the like that many other big-time programs have.
Myford: I sure hope not. As you look across the entire sports landscape, I think that what has happened in many arenas has tainted the picture for everybody of what sports has become from a season-ticket standpoint. I think anyone who is coming to our place on a Saturday after Saturday basis knows that Penn State is a pretty tried and true fanbase and still family and friend oriented. Everyone around the back of the car. We want to keep it that way. That said, we are not naive and the point I was going to make before is that no one here is pretending that this doesn't come without an element of risk. That's why it's a very difficult decision. Unfortunately from the position that I'm in and I hear fan feedback, I oftentimes get to deliver all this great news, but I'm a Penn Stater. I'm a Pennsylvania kid. I went to school here. I know what this place is about. So, I take that very seriously. And so, for the feedback to be Penn State is nothing but money-hungry so on and so forth, it's hard to hear. I see why someone would say that, because anytime a price goes up, there's an immediate assumption that there's an insensitivity on the behalf of the person who is raising the price. That's just how we are. So, some of that is difficult to hear, but I also have the knowledge that a lot of our fans aren't privy to on an everyday basis, and if there's one word that I would use to summarize why this plan is going into place, it would be - necessity. Some people will call it brash, some people will call it arrogant, some people will call it stupid, some people will call it courageous. I would call it necessary.
Obviously, there will be the people that say they don't want to pay for women's softball.
Myford: Yeah. As far as the overall broadbased program, that's a choice that we make. What I would be hopeful is that people would stop and consider what impact some of our olympic sports have on the overall program, because we all know that Penn State as a community, we enjoy the pride we have in our university and in our program. That pride, regardless of whether we think about it on a regular basis or not, I would definitely contend that a national fencing championship influences that pride. And, a national gymnastics championship would influence that.
Or the fact that you're the volleyball capital of the world at the collegiate level?
Myford: Correct. Those are all great things and I would say that doing away with any of those programs as a means of reducing expense is not a good thing for athletics or the university or anyone who cares for the university.
Had any thought been given to trying to generate more revenue from sports beyond men's basketball and football? Wrestling tickets, that kind of stuff?
Myford: Sure, and we are. We're being successful at some of those things. Wrestling and women's volleyball are two that are enjoying success. Obviously a lot of excitement around the wrestling program right now, and that all leads to increased attention and increased attendance, which leads usually to increased revenues. But, on the level of impact overall, it's not comparable, and a lot of that has to do with not just ticket sales, but when you get into media and those dollars.
In your projections and analysis, do you think that the impact on the season-ticket holder will put more pressure on the team and program for excellence? Does it mean we'll get a better schedule?
Myford: Let me address the first question. I don't know whether it's an increased pressure. I can't really forecast that. I think there's plenty of pressure now. As Penn State's program, we all know that the expectation to win is high. I think that comes right back to another reason that a program like this is necessary. Everything that goes into a winning program... excellence comes at a price, and while many would argue the definition of excellence, it is what we strive for. It's our goal. And, we know that you can't do things half-baked and expect to be there. So, will the pressure increase? I don't know. But I know that based on where the pressure already is, we're not going to change our standards. We would still expect to excel in all 29. As it relates to the schedule, I don't have influence on the schedule. I don't make the schedule. I'm not involved in the process and so I think that's probably something you would need to talk to Tim about.
Can you address the conspiracy concerns that it's coming out just in time for the prized 2011 schedule as a ploy to keep people paying for their tickets?
Myford: Yeah, that works out probably. It's a fortunate thing on one hand, but it doesn't matter on the other. This is something we have to do regardless of who is on the schedule. It's also more of a timing issue of something that this is something that even 18 months out is going to move right along. It's going to be a quick process. But to try to do it in any less than that is not fair to any season ticket holder. This requires some time to evaluate it, this requires some time to see how it impacts everyone's individual situation, and then it requires some time to decide what you want to do. And, we understand that and we want to try to give as much time as we can and we feel strong that essentially almost two seasons or a season and a half is time to do that.