Transcript: Penn State Special Teams Coach Joe Lorig Talks Position Plans
Penn State special teams coordinator Joe Lorig helped make an instant impact in his first season with the Nittany Lions last year.
Coming off a disappointing campaign in 2018, Penn State's special teams possession efficiency FEI rating jumped to No. 10 nationally, with major NCAA stats improved with both punt and kickoff return defense also in the top 10.
Ahead of the Nittany Lions' 2020 season, whenever it might transpire, questions linger as to how the Nittany Lions will continue to advance. The graduation of four-year starting punter Blake Gillikin and the early entrance to the NFL for return specialist K.J. Hamler will create new challenges for Lorig moving forward.
Tuesday morning, Lorig met with the media to talk about these topics and more.
Check out the transcript, lightly edited for clarity, below:
On Micah Parsons as kick returner:
The depth chart thing was just a perception thing. I think it was a little bit of us not all being in the same room when we went through it because I just saw it differently when it went out.
I saw the first two guys listed as the two returners that would be on the field, which is accurate. It would be Journey Brown and Micah Parsons. And then, who's the returner? Well it depends on which way they kick the ball, and I don't know which way each team is gonna kick the ball, but I guess the perception was the first guy listed would be the returner and the second guy would I guess be the off returner. It's just not how I saw it. It wasn't meant to be funny or to fool anybody or anything, it was just, I guess, a difference in perception.
Coach Franklin and I have had many conversations about Micah running the ball, getting the ball in his hands. Obviously, he was effective at that in high school, and we're certainly not afraid to do that. He's back there listed as a returner, just like he was last season, and a lot of people don't just kick the ball to our right, especially if we're good on kickoff return as I expect us to be. At the last place that I was at, they actually kicked away from our returner a lot more often than they kicked to him.
So I think it's just a game plan thing. Certainly, we're not afraid to put the ball in his hands, but Journey's obviously a very, very effective possibility also. It's definitely out there as an option. It wasn't meant to fool anybody, it was just the perception of how that was listed was a little bit different.
On the relationship between Parsons and Brent Pry:
I think their relationship is really, really special. Being able to observe it, number one, it comes from the fact that they're both really good people. And Coach Pry is a lot more than just a football coach to a lot of us, myself included. I think he's like, I wouldn't say necessarily a father figure, but like a mentor to Micah.
I think it always helps when you personally recruit the guy, and it's in Coach Pry's area, so he would have initially... identified him as a very young kid, started to develop the relationship. So it's his area, and it's his position, so there's a longstanding history that builds that relationship just like any relationship that takes time. And then I think Micah, seeing that Coach Pry is someone who genuinely cares about him and loves him. If he didn't play football tomorrow, I don't think you'd see much, besides the obvious not being a practice and those things, I don't think you'd see much difference in their relationship at all. They have the kind of relationship where they'll be talking on the phone and texting in 20, 30, 40 years, I guarantee it.
So I think it's just really a compliment to Coach Pry, and it's not just unique with Micah, it's with all of our players. But it shows his character and why he does this is because he cares about kids and he cares about people. And I think everybody, and specifically since you're asking about Micah, see that and it develops a genuine relationship that's much, much deeper than football.
On Jordan Stout at punter:
It's kind of a unique situation. Thankfully we got Jordan last year, who really is a combo guy. We were going to take a punter in last year's class. We had all the top guys in the country at our camps, or I went and saw them, depending on the situation. And it just didn't feel like there was one that necessarily, either we thought was good enough or one that was good enough that fit Penn State.
And you got to be really careful with those positions because typically, you only get one scholarship, so it's a lot different than say - and I'm not saying you ever want to make a mistake, but to give you an example, we have 13 or 14 defensive tackles on scholarship. Well, if one of those guys doesn't quite pan out the way we thought he would, we'll probably be okay because you got 12 or 13 other guys. It's different with specialists because you just get one guy. And so if you're gonna offer a guy, you got to make sure that that they fit to a tee every single category, from a talent standpoint, from a fit at Penn State, from academics, all the different boxes that you have to check.
Between Coach Franklin and myself and some of the kicking instructors that I respect and value, we just didn't think there was a guy that fit those boxes last year. And then it also turns out in watching Jordan through the fall and through the summer last year, that we wouldn't have gotten a punter that was better than him anyway. I don't think there'll be any question of whether Jordan is good enough to fill in for Blake, and obviously, Blake was fantastic, that's nothing to minimize his value, I just think Jordan's that good also.
It's just gonna be making sure that we manage him being able to do the kickoffs, the long field goals, and the punts. And what does that look like? A lot of people don't do that. Oklahoma did it a couple of years ago. They had a guy that did all three. He was drafted. I think that Jordan is a similar caliber of talent, in my opinion. It's really just going to be managing the workload on him and making sure that one, if he's becoming a great punter, we don't have any drop-off on kickoff because we were really, really good at that last year.
And so, making sure that we manage the workload throughout the season, the offseason, game weeks, fall camp, all those kinds of things, making sure that we're really conscientious. And I've reached out to a bunch of people that have been in this situation, that have used guys for both in the past, to see. I really kind of put it in baseball terms, like what's the right pitch count per day to make sure that a guy can stay healthy and do both?
So I'm excited about Jordan. I think he's gonna do a really, really, really good job. He's very, very talented and I'm really thankful that we took him last year because we really took him as a kicker, but because he's such a good combo guy, it allowed us to not panic and to be patient and make great decisions, and there are some fantastic punters in this year's class and in next year's class that we've identified that I think that we'll all be really excited about.
On Stout as a holder:
We are looking at him as a holder. Obviously when you go to a long field goal, then you'd have to have a different holder. But Jake Pinegar is also very capable of doing long field goals, just so everybody knows, it's just when we charted it in the fall, there was just a slight difference on the short field goals and a slight difference on the long field goals. It wasn't like there was a major difference. So Jake could also do all of it.
There are some nuances. I won't get into the details of the techniques because I think that'll get boring for you guys. For me, I'm really simple. You know how I develop a holder? I asked the kicker who he wants. Because the number one thing is that they are comfortable with that guy. Some people use quarterbacks or receivers. The advantage to using a specialist is that's all those guys do all the time during practice. So if it's a quarterback, he might do it in 10 minutes before practice, but then he goes and focuses on being a quarterback, which I think we all would like him to do, myself included. If it's a specialist, that's all they do every day for two hours is work on their special, unique skill set. So Joe Calcagno can do it, Bradley King can do it.
But honestly, what I do is, I pull the guys in individually. Whoever it is, whether it be, for instance, you saw Jordan was listed the other day. Well that's because I asked Jake if we went out tomorrow, obviously, we wanted spring and we all know that, but if we went out tomorrow, who would you want to hold? And he immediately said Jordan. So that's my answer.
So it's not something I'm worried about. It's not like it's not an important skill, because when we go to kick a game-winner, everybody in the stadium and myself and you guys, it will all be really important then. But it's not something that I've ever not been able to find a guy. We will have a guy and have a competent guy. Who that is today, honestly, without spring I can't say it. But I know if we went out today right now and kicked a shorter field goal, Jake would kick it and Jordan would hold it.
On K.J. Hamler and options at punt return:
We've got a bunch of guys that I'm really excited about. One of the things with K.J., and it's to take nothing from him, obviously K.J. is a spectacular talent, but people just didn't kick and punt to us. And when they did, the punters were oftentimes scared. You could tell they'd been over-coached during the week, and they didn't punt well. We only had 21 returnable punts last year. People just didn't kick off to us very often.
For instance, in the bowl game, I was at Memphis, obviously, I know their punter, he's really, really good. Well, their coach, him and I talked before the game, they actually instructed him to punt out of bounds. I don't have it right in front of me, but their punter's average I think was like 43 or 44. Well against us in the game, it was 33. So basically, every time they punted the ball, they just gave us a first down.
Again, K.J. is phenomenal. But I actually expect better production out of those units because I think people won't know as much about our guys, and so at least early on, until we prove we are what I think we can be, I think people will kick and punt to us without as much fear, and that may open up some more possibilities for better play in the return game, which I expect.
On including a specialist in this year's recruiting class, and being able to evaluate without camps:
I don't think you ever want to paint yourself into a box of saying you have to take a guy in a certain year because, as I've already outlined, when you only get one, man, you can't make a mistake or it'll set your program back a long, long way. So we'll never paint ourselves into that box.
How you want to do it though, in a perfect world, so everybody's aware, is you want to, when your guy's going to be a senior, you want to sign a guy in that class. You would, in a perfect world, sign a kicker for instance in this '21 class because that way, they would come in when Jordan and Jake were seniors. They would be able to learn from those guys, watch what those guys do at practice, see how they handle game day, see how they handle game week, see how they handle the offseason, all those kind of things, and really get that year under their belt from a football standpoint, from a strength and conditioning standpoint, from an academic standpoint, from a social standpoint.
And then that next year, they're ready to go, and you feel like they've had a year in a college football program before they have to walk out in Beaver Stadium, in front of that big crowd. Because that's a big stage to be on, especially when it's just you.
People don't realize it's more spotlight than even a quarterback. I mean, everybody on kickoff is staring at that kicker. Everybody on field goal, everybody on punt, everybody is looking at that guy. So it's an abnormal amount of pressure for guys, so you really want to bring him in, redshirt him, let your seniors finish up, and then go forward that way. So obviously, with that being said, you would like to get a punter and a kicker because you're going to be in that situation in both positions depending on how things work out. Guys still develop and everything. We have guys in the program that will still develop. But in a perfect world, you'd like to do it that way.
In a small class, sometimes you can have guys be preferred walk-ons, you could gray shirt people, you can sign them in that class. I mean, there's a lot of different variations of how you can do things. The thing that I respect and appreciate here is our head coach values special teams. He understands that Blake Gillikin probably had just as much impact on us winning as Sean Clifford. And again, that's a compliment to Blake and a compliment to Sean. I don't mean that in any other way. But I could go through, Jordan Stout had just as much so and so.
We were number one in the country in special teams efficiency, which basically gauges field position. If you don't think field position helps you win football games... if people don't understand that, they're wrong. It's a major, major factor and it had a big impact on us in a lot of games last year. Michigan comes to mind. I don't have it in front of me again but, I remember the Sunday after, Michigan started like five times inside the 20 or something crazy like that. Coach Franklin recognizes that. But we'll never paint ourselves into a corner. If we need to wait a year to get the right guy and the best guy, we'll do that. I'm on top of it, it's what I do all day, every day. That, combined with the fact that Coach Franklin puts an emphasis on it, we're always going to have good specialists and I'm going to make sure that we do.
On frustrations of not being kicked to last season:
Yeah, it can be frustrating at times, but what I try to do is look at the big picture. It's not about me being the number one special teams coach in the world or us having... like I always tell the guys, we're not going to be the number one punt block team in the country and rough the punter four times. That's not going to be the deal.
So what I look at is, what's it doing for our football team? Like I said in the bowl game, maybe we didn't get the punt return yardage that I would have liked to have gotten the bowl game, but every time they punted the ball, we got a first down. I think if you asked any team in the country, would they take that? They would take that.
What I look at is, how are our special teams, our return units, our coverage units, whatever they are, how are they impacting our team? Then as you said, try to adjust. Can it be frustrating at times as a coach? It can because you know what you have, but other people watch film and they know what K.J. is too, so they weren't going to kick to him. The place I was at before, we were really, really, really good on special teams, specifically kick return and punt return. So I've been kind of used to people not kicking to our guys.
And there are some creative things that you can do, you just have to balance, especially year one, trying to be too cute and too creative with also keeping things really, really simple. We only have two goals on special teams, to own the ball. We don't want to give up possessions. There was a drastic improvement in that last year. And then no penalties. There was a little bit of an improvement in that last year. I want to see more improvement in that.
Just to put it in perspective for you, I looked it up this morning, had we eliminated penalties, which I know you can't say that after the fact, but just as a teaching tool for the players I'm going to use, if we didn't have penalties on punt return, we would have been sixth in the country on punt return alone. So, even though all the things I've already said about people not punting the ball, well that had nothing to do with how they punted or nothing to do with K.J., that had to do with us getting penalties. Also controlling what we can control.
But mostly looking at the big picture and making sure that I don't just get caught up in my special teams world. It's not just about me, it's not just about our special teams, it's about how is it impacting our football team? If it's a detriment, then I'm going to have a real problem with it. But if people are punting the ball and we're getting good field position because they're doing a lot of bad punts which you saw a bunch of, would I rather see K.J. return them for touchdowns? Yes. But that's still good for our football team, for our offense to have good starting field position, and that's how I look at it. And we study that every week. The first thing Coach Franklin and I talk about is, Did we win the field position battle?
On difficulties judging competition without seeing punters and kickers in person:
Obviously, it's very, very difficult. But the nice thing, having done this for a long time, is that I have some connections in the kicking world that I really trust. Guys that have worked with these kids for four or five, six, seven years. And so, you just have to lean more on those guys, more on their evaluations. And I do that anyway, to be honest with you.
Obviously, you want your own in-person evaluation. There's nothing like that. We typically, at camp, take them into Beaver Stadium, try to put them under some pressure, make them kick in front of Coach Franklin, which is pressure on a 16-17-year-old kid. So we can't do those things. I don't want to mention specific people because I don't want to offend anybody, but some of the best kicking coaches in the country, I've worked with since I started my career in 1997 and have great, great relationships with, and so, they've seen those kids, not in the same situations, but in those types of situations at different camps that they ran. And they also know the kids. The kids, the personality of the kids, the personality of the parents, even a lot better than I ever could because most of them have been working with them, as I said, for numerous years. So it's going to be leaning more on those guys and more on what their evaluations were.
Obviously in conjunction with... talking to high school coaches and stuff just like we normally would, but mainly leaning on those guys. Film is very difficult with specialists. With other positions, you can really get a great film evaluation. And we still watch the film, but it's different because you don't know what the wind conditions are, you don't know how warm it is, you don't know if that film's cut up. I mean, I'm terrible and I could go put together 10 good kicks today. If I kick, 300, I might kick, 10 is probably an exaggeration, maybe five. Okay, five good ones. But my point is, I could make a cut up and then send it to you and it might look good, so it's a unique deal in that you can't, not that you can't, we still watch it, but it's not the same film evaluation as other positions.
So really leaning on those contacts that I've developed over the last 22 years. One of the guys that I work with a lot, he and I were going through a couple of days ago, the last 11 guys that he has helped me recruit, that he sent to our schools, the last 11 have gone on to play in the NFL. Not all of them made it, but they were brought into NFL camps. So that shows you the kind of relationship that I'll lean on really heavy at these times.
On fishing plans and how he's coping with coronavirus impact:
We're doing great. Coach Franklin keeps us really busy around here so there's not been much fishing as of right now, although I have a buddy that works at the fly shop that told me it's been great. Hopefully, we get to still have our summer, but, fishing and all that stuff's fun, but nothing's more important than... like right now, I'd kill to go back to work, just to be around the office, be around the players, be around the guys. You really miss that stuff, more than I ever thought I would. Sometimes you get so into the grind that you think man, I wish I could just go fishing every day or something, but when you actually have the time and you don't have the other thing, you really miss it more.
So I hope we get our summer because it's a special time for our family and it's just kind of become a tradition, but nothing's more important to me. I don't mean nothing, you know what I mean, but Penn State football is my priority along with my family and whatever it takes for us to get back and have a season and get things back to normal.
I really miss our coaches, I really miss our players and while I hope we have vacation, if we can play football in the fall and it means sacrificing something, I'll be the first one in line to do it, I promise you that. Now hopefully Coach Franklin would give me a little bit of a break, one of these weekends, and I'll get out and fish around here though, because like I said, I heard it's awesome.
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